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May 04, 2010

Comments

Brian Gallagher

Public opinion about militarism led to the abolition of a people's army (the draft) and the establishment of a professional army (the so-called All Volunteer Force). Now, that is being phased out in favor of an entirely private army.
see this:
http://rebelreports.com/post/569103736/secret-erik-prince-blackwater-tape-exposed#disqus_thread

Spirit of Vatican II

"He expressed disdain for the Geneva Convention. He called those fighting the US in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan “barbarians” who “crawled out of the sewer.” "

Wherease Prince and his like are barbarians who are crawling into the sewer.

"Prince appeared to demean Afghans his company is training in Afghanistan, saying Blackwater had to teach them “Intro to Toilet Use” and to do jumping jacks."

Civilize people by wrecking their country, murdering, torturing and humiliating them? Not a good idea, nor a new one. It always results in the would-be civilizer becoming barbaric.

me

"The world's most abusive organization"?

Hyperbole like this is not helpful. How about the North Korean Army? Chinese Army? Mujahideen? Taliban? Let Mr. Rocha write this same letter to one of the aforementioned groups. It would be the last one he would ever write.

Brian Gallagher

" How about the North Korean Army? Chinese Army? Mujahideen? Taliban?"

How many cities have they razed lately?

me

What city did the U.S. army raze?

You really should try backing up your accusations with facts.

Brian Gallagher

Fallujah, 2003

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/10/usa.iraq

36,000 of the city's 50,000 homes were destroyed as well as 60 schools and 65 mosques.

me

Fallujah was hardly "razed". Razed is typically employed in the sense of "destroyed to the ground." Clearly, the U.S. military did not come into the city in destroy it to the ground. It is true that the city was damaged significantly but it was hardly razed and clearly the U.S. has the capacity to "raze" any city on the planet.

The U.S. did not go in and start killing innocent civilians. The common practice of terrorists from Vietnam to Iraq is to set their positions up amongst civilians, dress like civilians, and employ women and children as combatants. The terrorists then engage U.S. forces and when we respond to the attack civilians are killed. They want to ensure that we kill civilians. This makes terrorists more popular. Even if we simply killed thier combatants, they would look like civilians since they are not in uniform.

I might also add, it is not as if U.S. forces initially engaged the terrorists in Fullujah. The U.S. forces in this case were actually drawn into battle by terrorists.

Spirit of Vatican II

The current US occupation of Iraq began with two incidents of shooting into unarmed crowds -- as the British did in Amritsar in April 1919 and in Dublin in November 1920. The latter incidents are remembered to this day. The Iraqis will remember American brutality long after Saddam Hussein is forgotten.

"me"'s apologetic hair-splitting confirms that the US Army is indeed the most abusive organization in the world. Even when they follow their own rules in "engaging terrorists" they leave a massive trail of human misery, of grief and desolation, in their wake -- which is not accidental but foreseen and factored in as acceptable "collateral damage" -- a wonderfully dehumanizing term.

Spirit of Vatican II

Though it may be streng verboten in US controled media to used the expression "the razing of Fallujah" it is actually in current use, as a normal word for the US's horrid crimes. The razing was not 100% to be sure, only 72% of dwellings, plus hospitals etc. I'm sure the survivors are grateful to the US Army for its kindly restraint.

Thanks to the internet we can prevent history from being forgotten or rewritten: see http://www.rwor.org/a/1260/fallujah-razing.htm
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/793_0_15_0_C38/
http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-wallis010804.htm
http://fallujagenocide.blogspot.com/

me

Spirit VII writes, "me"'s apologetic hair-splitting confirms that the US Army is indeed the most abusive organization in the world.

How does my "apologetic hair-splitting "confirm" anything done by the U.S. army? It does not.

Second, it is not "apologetic hair-splitting" to ask for evidence in support of an accusation. Or do you think that accusations are simply true because you and those you agree with make them? I might also add there is nothing "apologetic" about asking individuals to be precise concerning the terms they use when making accusations. "to raze" is to destroy to the ground, Fullujah was destroyed to the ground. "To murder" is not the same as "to assault" is not the same as "to steal" etc. Or do you advocate making accusations without respect to the truth?

I was not aware that if one used sarcasm it actually makes one case stronger.

You write, "The current US occupation of Iraq began with two incidents of shooting into unarmed crowds"

Please give evidence of this.

me

The problem with the links you provide is that they do not constitute proof. Essenatially we have two accounts of the same events. Why should I accept one over the other? There is no reason. These links do not seem any more credible than others that provide the opposite "news."

Even in foreign video of the battle of Fulluja, U.S. troops are taking fire. If they are fired upon, they certainly can return fire. I might also add if the terrorists are fired upon it is reasonable to expect that they will return fire.

me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iioXCs0KWrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNiPRhkzD44&NR=1

Brian Gallagher

"me", stop digging yourself in a hole.
My friends served and were wounded in those campaigns, specifically with the 2/4 Marines, who suppressed the uprising of Ramadi in spring of 2004.
While I, fortunately, never served in Iraq, I too underwent boot camp and a term of service for the US Navy/Marines as a Hospital Corpsman. The Marines have no "medics" as the Army does, so Hospital Corpsmen of the Navy volunteer to undergo Marine training and serve with them as medics, which the Marines call "docs".
I can tell you, first hand, of chiefs, in boot camp (they wanted this to be drilled into you early) that all that "disobey immoral orders" business is total bullshit. "If you're ordered to gun down some entire village, well you better god-damned do it!" (I am not making this up).
A friend of mine, who was a sergeant in the motor pool of an Army unit based in Baghdad, one more than one occasion had to line up in the hot sun and hear some devoutly evangelical young officer tell the assembled how, "we're here to win this country for the Constitution and the New Testament."
Whenever I hear contemporary politicians laud "those men and women in uniform," as "the best Americans," it makes my blood boil. I've lived in some shitty Boston neighborhoods and I've spent a lot of time down in Brooklyn too, and never have I been offered the services of such organized prostitution services as I have when I served. Remember "Tailhook"? The greatest con was to make such a thing seem as if it were anything other than a normal US military socializing: white and misogynist.

Brian Gallagher

correction: it was the early summer 2004 (not Spring) in Ramadi that the city exploded and the US response was devastating

me

Brian,

""me", stop digging yourself in a hole."

What hole have I dug myself into?

I have only asked that when individuals make accusations, they do so with precision. I have not argued that the U.S. military is without fault.

Are you actually arguing that because there is some organized immorality in the military, that therefore everyone in the military is involved in organized immorality?

I can tell you, as a fact, not everyone ina the U.S. military is white (although I am not sure what is immoral about being white) and misogynist.


Brian Gallagher

"me",
you ask your questions as if the military is a society of equals. In the Navy/Marines (and every other branch), you do what you're told.
Maybe I should have been classist where i was racist. Our current Commander In Chief is half Kenyan, by the way! But even he made jokes about the tools of misery.
At the White House Correspondent's Dinner just a couple weeks ago:
"The Jonas Brothers are here!... Sasha and Malia are huge fans but boys don't get any ideas. I have two words for you: Predator Drones. You'll never see it coming." - President Obama
Ha ha ha! Childrens' limbs hanging from trees after a Hellfire missile strike - HILARIOUS!!! I mean, really that's comedy GOLD!!!. Liberals like to bring up Bush's stand-up routine about not finding WMDs but that implies that they truly meant to invade Iraq because of such threats (it was just the easiest available excuse).
Turning every comment to enable victimhood is an American right-wing specialty. Yes, you don't have to tell me, someone who's served in the US military, that they're all not white. Funny how you think you need to remind me.
Let me burst the bubble of your fantasy: from the very first few sentences of the recruiter, service in the US military is portrayed as an utterly heroic, self sacrificing GOOD(!) that all those "civilians" just don't understand. We (those in uniform) are a class apart who know that Freedom Isn't Free.
And all that bullshit, when the President visits The Troops he wears (tellingly) a WW2 -style bomber jacket (not an infantry field jacket). No, it's clear, what we must be nostalgiac about and what we must support is dropping bombs from the air.
When i was in high school, we had an Air Force officer address the student body on the subject of International Relations. I could go on, but it just gets more ridiculous....
Hating the shit out of brown people is our beloved USA's modus operandi.

me

Brian,

What does any of this have to do with anything that I have written. You are not arguing against me. You are arguing against a straw man.

I have defended neither Bush nor Obama. I have not suggested that humor is OK when directed toward the misery of others.

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