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November 07, 2012



Can you expect any rational discussion about gay marriage etc; from a group of men who can't even discuss married priests?

Colleen Kochivar-Baker

How in the world can one expect a legitimate discussion of gay marriage from a cast of celibates who are 50% closeted gay? My God they would have to deny their own lives and their own decisions. Nothing changes until this changes.


Gay marriage is impossible for Catholics to accept. It is contrary to divine revelation.

Spirit of Vatican II

Catholic ethics are based on natural law and reason more than on specifics of divine revelation. But if you want to argue against gay marriage based on the Bible, what do you make of the covenant between David and Jonathan? Lots of Catholic gays have adopted it as a model for the faithful friendship they wish to cultivate and to see honored by society.


On a different but not unrelated note, the abortion debate has suddenly flared up again after the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar and has prompted calls to legislate for the X case. Can I ask: what is your opinion on this? Are you pro-choice?


In a comment on the internet page of the renowned Jesuit magazine Études, I make the point that this magazine seems now, in 2012, to be regressing from a position expressed in its pages in 1999 against the so-called lack of "alterity" homosexuals are accused of in mainstream French catholicism. http://www.revue-etudes.com/Societe/_Mariage_homosexuel__homoparentalite_et_tentation_de_la_toute-puissance/45/15026

Territorial Prelature Mission de France Vicar general Arnault Favart says he was moved by the suffering expressed by the parents of a gay florist he met at a wedding : "I discovered how much words and attitudes of the Church had wounded them" http://catholique-mission-de-france.cef.fr/pages/pistes/une/une.html

Spirit of Vatican II

I applaud your Etudes comment, to which I tried to add the following, but the combox is locked:

Je suis consterné par le délire religieux qui s'est déchaîné contre les projets de mariage civil pour les conjoints du même sexe; que l'on fasse si grand cas dans le camp "catho" (à distinguer de Catholique) des propos confus et malsains d'un Philippe Arino me semble pitoyable et opportuniste; ceci dit, un article comme celui de Dominique Fernandez et al. dans Le Monde nov. 18-19, 2012 me semble esquiver le débat rationnel pourtant si favorable aux revendications gaies.

Spirit of Vatican II

Shane, I am cautiously pro-choice, and I think the ostrich mentality of the Irish killed this woman. Let us take the blame.

Do you have any access to the Irish Ecclesiastical Records discussions of the morality of hunger strikes in 1920 at the time of McSwiney?

Minix Ahern

It's like reading again the two famous novels of Dr. Jose Rizal of the Philippines. In his Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo he was showing how church officials and men meddle with the decisions of the government. I hope that the famous Father Damaso is not the same with the French Bishops.

James M.

"The atmosphere of the catholic discussion on gay marriage, in the absence of any forum permitting these voices to be heard, is that of a sect or a cult."

## The atmosphere of the CC is that of a cult. A harsh thing to say, admittedly, but if true, it needs saying. To be precise, it has many of the distinctive features of Fundamentalism.

It is constructing enemies for itself, by treating gay Catholic Christians as "the other". When it shows enmity to gay Catholics, it is unsurprising that other gay people should regard the CC, and the Christ of Catholics, as their enemy. It is dishonouring the Name of God, by acting in a very unChristian, all too secular, fashion. The Catholic mind is not terribly good at noticing such ironies, or not nowadays. Partly because it is not informed by the Bible; but that is another topic.

One irony is that, by making Catholicism less attractive, the CC encourages people to be all the more aware of their identity as gay: to be grateful that there is more to them than Catholicism (a nice inversion of the teaching of the 1986 Letter).

This is a good way of tempting people to leave the CC altogether - & is what a lot of Catholics seem to want. That would be very convenient - for to love others, means caring for them, not having nothing to do with them. This is another sign of the sectarian mentality that now afflicts parts of the Church.

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